JOHN TOTLEBEN Interview

John Totleben, another former Joe Kubert School student, is best known for his beautifully intricate, award winning linework on DC's Swamp Thing, which is all the more incredible when you learn that he's legally blind! It's now extremely difficult for him to do the precise type of linework that made him famous (not that it was easy before!) John sent me so much great art to choose from that it was very difficult for me to choose what to print, so be sure to check the Rough Stuff page of my web site to see some more! This interview was originally conducted in 2003, but recently updated for this issue by John himself.
George Khoury: How did you discover Swamp Thing for the first time?
John Totleben: It would have been the very first issue. I remember seeing a DC house ad for it, and just picked up the book when it came out.
Khoury: Did you follow the entire series even the Nestor Redondo ones?
Totleben: Oh yes. I had them all, right to the very end. There might have been 24 issues or something like that, and I brought them all… even the ones that sucked. I thought that while Redondo was a great artist, better than Wrightson as far as drawing figures and women and such, but somehow he still was not quite a match for Bernie's obviously definitive version of Swampy. While Redondo had some fairly obvious technical advantages, he lacked the sheer vision and feel for the macabre that seemed to come so naturally to Bernie.

Khoury: I thought you weren't a big fan of the Wrightson work on the series?
Totleben: That's not true. It was his earlier pre-Swamp Thing stuff I wasn't real crazy about, say, anything he did before 1971. I liked what Wrightson did on Swamp Thing, quite a bit. I was, at the time 13 years old, more of a Neal Adams fan basically, and I had more of a taste for that "realistic" type art. By the time Swamp Thing came along I had expanded my tastes beyond just Adams work and was able to dig a lot of other artists, including Berni's work. What Wrightson was doing seemed more caricaturish to me, like Jack Davis's art, but I quickly became a huge fan of Berni's work on Swamp Thing. It was pretty amazing stuff, there's no question about it. He had really set some new standards, at that time.

Khoury: When you began helping [artist] Tom Yeates on [the art chores on] Saga of the Swamp Thing, was it because it was a character you always wanted to depict? Or was it that Tom just needed your help?
Totleben: Well, both. I had always wanted to do the character in some way or another, as it just seemed to me, if I were going to do comics - if I had to pick * any * character - it would have been Swamp Thing. It just so happened that Tom had gotten the art assignment on the second series and was working on it, so when he needed an art assist, which was inevitable really, it was a natural thing for me or Steve or Rick to pitch in. We would always jump in and help each other out in any way, on whatever jobs we were respectively working on when the deadline loomed.

Khoury: You were already helping Tom out as early as #2? What kind of things were you doing?
Totleben: Jeez, I don't remember what issue it was. I may have penciled a couple of pages or some panels. I don't think I did any inking on those early ones; just some penciling.

Khoury: Was Tom falling behind or was it because you were the "monster" guy?
Totleben: I think he was just starting to fall a little behind, although I was an obvious choice to drag in when the situation arose.
Khoury: Was he behind right from the beginning?
Totleben: Well, it is kinda hard for one person to do a monthly book. At some point, you always end up slipping behind a little, because it's a * lot * of work for one person. It's a lot of work for two people, y'know!

Khoury: What did you think of the stories that Pasko and Yeates did together?
Totleben: I remember thinking the writing was getting a little stuffy as issues went on. There was some good stuff in there… but I remember some sort of anti-Christ storyline going on, with some girl or something, and it seemed to me that it was getting a little convoluted… boring, actually. The drag for Tom was that, after the first issue, Swamp Thing was taken out of the swamps and put in a more urban environment. Tom excels at drawing the natural world - jungles, swamps, woodlands, etc. - so for him to have to draw these boring urban backgrounds was a waste of his abilities.

Khoury: Steve Bissette was also there lending a hand to those issues, right?
Totleben: Steve did the layouts to #8, and I think he might have done the cover layout, too. I remember him having done a considerable amount of work on the book.

Khoury: Was Tom becoming disenchanted with the assignment?
Totleben: I think Tom was just probably getting tired it, the monthly deadline grind, because he had been working on it for over a year at that point and I imagine he felt like he wanted to go on to other things.

Khoury: Before getting the assignment from Tom, what were you doing in terms of work?
Totleben: Before we got on that book, I was jumping around doing freelance stuff, only real sporadically.

Khoury: Was the period between leaving the Kubert School and getting the Swamp Thing assignment a tough period for you?
Totleben: After I got out of Kubert School, I was working with [Golden-Age comic book publisher] Harry "A" Chesler for a couple of years on The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam illustrations, so that kept me busy for awhile, and after I finished that, I had moved back to Erie from New Jersey. I picked up a few art jobs here and there, but mostly I was doing regular jobs. I had worked as a janitor, at one point, for some outfit. I ended up working at a plastic factory for a couple of months - you know, the kind of crap we * all * have to do before we end up escaping and doing what we want. [laughs]

Khoury: Were you having doubts that you weren't going to make it as a professional artist?
Totleben: No, I never really thought that I'd fail. I just was convinced that sometimes you just have to wait until the right moment, I guess, and that moment came, of course, when Swamp Thing came up for grabs.

Khoury: How did that happen? Did Tom let you know that he was leaving?
Totleben: Tom did mention to both Bissette and I that he was going to be quitting the book, and that we should send some samples to [then-editor] Len Wein.

Khoury: Was it Tom's idea that Bissette and you work together?
Totleben: I don't remember if it was his idea, or what, but it might have been. I don't really remember too clearly, other than I do recall that Tom had recommended us.

Khoury: This was around the time of [Bissette & Totleben's collaboration] the Dracula story [Bizarre Adventures #33]?
Totleben: Yes, that was the thing where Bissette had fallen behind on a job and he had to get it done pretty quick. So I went up to Vermont, stayed there for a week or two, and we just sat down and completed this job. I did a lot of work on it, though I don't know how much he had done on that by the time I got there, but it was a pretty big book. Steve may have finished 10 pages into it, or something, but there was still a * lot * left to be done, so we just sat down and did it.

Khoury: Were you two the only artists to try out for that book? Did you know if Len was thinking of anybody else?
Totleben: Nah, we weren't the only ones considered. I knew that there were a lot of people, apparently, because Len mentioned to me that he had people lined up all the way to Idaho or something like that. [laughter] I do know that Scott and Bo Hampton were being considered, as was Dave Gibbons. Len probably figured that since we already had some experience on the book working with Tom, and our samples were good, we were the likeliest choices.

Khoury: Was this the first time you tried out for a monthly?
Totleben: Oh yes, that was my first time out.

Khoury: Steve and you had prepared three pages for this tryout, right? He penciled two, which you inked, and you penciled one and he inked that?
Totleben: Right. He may have inked one or two pages over my pencils, and then there were another couple pages where I inked over his pencils. We just assumed that it would probably work out better with him penciling and me inking, because Steve really has a good storytelling sense and an eye for layout, both of which I didn't possess at that time, at least not matching his abilities.

Khoury: Steve had more experience?
Totleben: Well, it just seemed that Steve had the better knack for that end of it, and I had a better knack for the inking end. It just seemed like the right thing to do.

Khoury: Steve felt you had the Swamp Thing "look" down better than he did, in the beginning.
Totleben: Don't forget that I had been a Swamp Thing fan from the very beginning of the first series, George. I think I turned him on to Len and Bernie's work at the Kubert School. I don't believe he had seen it before then, if I remember correctly. I had a better idea of what the character probably should look like, just based on the fact I had a longer history of appreciating it and thinking about it, I guess, but that was only a minor thing in the beginning.

Khoury: Was the book already late when Steve and you joined the title with #16?
Totleben: I don't remember if it was or not, but it sure it seemed like it. [laughs] If it wasn't late by our first issue, it was definitely by the second one we did!

Khoury: Steve mentioned that, in his heart, he knew he couldn't keep up with a monthly book.
Totleben: He never mentioned that to me. I just figured that I could do a monthly book, no sweat.

Khoury: I recall reading that you and he had made a pact that, no matter what, you would both leave the book after one year.
Totleben: Well, Steve and I figured we'd only be doing it for about a year, anyway. It wasn't a pact so much as how long we assumed our interest in it would last. We just thought we'd get on the book and do it for a year and move on to other things, but things just seemed to pick up and take off - especially once we got Alan in there.

Khoury: What kind of editor was Len?
Totleben: Len was a pretty nice guy to work for. I got along with him pretty well, and things went fairly smooth all the while I was working with him during his time as editor. Len's assistant, Nick Cuti, was also a great guy and quite easy to work with. I think Steve, Alan and I were all pretty lucky to have been able to start off working on Swamp Thing with these guys.

Khoury: Were you able to contribute to Marty Pasko's storylines?
Totleben: There were some ideas we'd sent along to Marty. Both Steve and I had ideas, but I don't know if we ever got to the point where we started submitting a lot of them. I think we probably did send some in, and it was just that Marty wasn't around long enough to have used any of them. So we ended up forwarding a lot of those ideas to Alan.

Khoury: It seemed, when you two were doing the book with Marty, the direction of Swamp Thing was starting to change. Arcane, Abby, and Matt returned as characters, for instance. How did that happen?
Totleben: Marty had apparently planned to have them return even before we got on the book, I would guess. I imagine it was something he had in mind.

Khoury: Is it true that Len wasn't too happy when you starting drawing Swampy because you started adding all the vegetation and detail?
Totleben: To tell you the truth, I don't remember that coming up; he may have said to keep it toned down a little bit. The thing is, on those first issues, we didn't go that overboard with Swamp Thing. We added * some * stuff, but we hadn't gotten to the point where we were putting tons of vegetation, and tubers, and all that yet.

Khoury: In #19, you guys really left a mark on that issue. What was different about that one?
Totleben: It was just part of the growing process of working on a book. When we first started, Len told me that they usually like to give new artists or new teams about three issues to really get their feel for a book, because it took about three to really get in there and be able to start hitting a stride. I think that somewhere in issue #17, Steve and I were already starting to pick up in terms of the art, though we also were starting to fall behind a bit, in terms of the schedule! Swamp Thing #18 was a fill-in issue, but by #19, Steve and I were pretty much on the ball. The work we did on issue #17 and #19 is probably as good as anything else we did in the series, as I'm sure you could pull out panels that are every bit as impressive as what came after.

Khoury: Do you remember why Marty left the book?
Totleben: Len told me that he was planning to take Marty off the book.

Khoury: This was told to you before you started work on the series?
Totleben: No, this was after a couple of issues, probably when I was working on #19, or had just started it. Len just felt that Marty was so overextended, and had so much going on, that he was risking his health doing so much stuff. Being friends with Marty, Len just basically wanted to do him a favor, I guess, to get Marty off the book to save his health.

Our new hit mag ROUGH STUFF, celebrating the ART of creating comics, pulls out all the stops for its fourth issue! In #4, editor (and top pro inker) Bob McLEOD presents NEVER-BEFORE PUBLISHED penciled pages, preliminary sketches, detailed layouts, and unused inked versions from artists throughout comics history! Featured this issue are extensive galleries by Michael KALUTA (who also provides this issue's new BATMAN cover, along with his preliminary art from it)! Andrew "Starman" ROBINSON, Gene "The Dean" COLAN, Howard "American Flagg" CHAYKIN, and Steve "Swamp Thing" BISSETTE! Each artist provides detailed commentaries on their work, discussing what went right and wrong with it, and giving background information to put it all into historical perspective. The feature interview this issue is with John TOTLEBEN, discussing his career from the Joe Kubert School, to Swamp Thing, Miracleman, and beyond. Plus there's a look at the recent Wonder Woman Day charity event, showing plenty of rare art from the auction, plus art critiques, before-and-after art comparisons, and more!

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Swamp Thing #91
During this time, my approach to doing painted covers was to work out the composition and drawing on either sketch paper or bristol board at the standard 11" x 17" page size or even smaller. I would then enlarge the sketches in sections on a copy machine to get an overall image size of about 20" x 30", then transfer the image to the canvas or panels using graphite paper. Most of the paintings I did for the Swamp Thing covers were done this size, though some are smaller.
Swamp Thing TM & ©2007 DC Comics

LFrankenstein
I don't remember what this was for, but it appears to be a fairly typical quick, rough, brush-inked drawing that was possibly done in a sketchbook.
Courtesy of David Hamilton

Swamp Thing #84
This was one of those covers where I had to scratch my head awhile trying to come up with an idea that would make this work. The subject matter is a bit subdued with no Swamp Thing in sight, so I decided to focus on Abby. In hindsight, I would probably black out the ceiling in the background to force more attention to the figure of Matt Cable lying on the hospital bed.
Swamp Thing TM & ©2007 DC Comics

Strange Adventures
In 1998 sometime, I got a call from Axel Alonso asking if I might be interested in doing something for the Strange Adventures mini-series he was editing. I told him I'd think about it. A few days later, I met Mark Schultz at a convention in Cleveland, and asked him if he might like to write up something we could work on together for the book. He came up with "Metal Fatigue", and I finally got a chance to draw a cool robot story! Swamp Thing TM & ©2007 DC Comics

Death The High Cost of Living #3 Pinup
Some local fans immediately recognized the background in this picture as being taken specifically from the Erie Cemetery. I used a number of reference photos and even though I freely rearranged certain elements for compositional purposes, it still retains the distinct feel of a particular area of that cemetery.
Death TM & ©2007 DC Comics

UnMen
Even before Alan Moore started on Swamp Thing, Steve Bissette and I were already building up a pretty good head of creative steam on the book. We were working out ideas for Arcane's Unmen based on insectoid designs almost before we actually began our penciling and inking duties.

UnMen
As per our usual good-natured habits of trying to out-do one another, I tossed this rather grotesque and disturbing thing at Bissette in an attempt to provoke him to even more unspeakable heights of weirdness.
Courtesy of David Hamilton