F M BELGIUM
Member Since May 2005
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Deathstroke vs Etrigan the Demon by Tom Grummett

Location: GRUMMETT TOM
Artist: Tom Grummett (All)

1019  Views  -  6  Comments  -  4  Likes

Additional Images

Sketch 3

Sketch 2

Sketch 1
Artwork Details
Location: GRUMMETT TOM
Title: Deathstroke vs Etrigan the Demon by Tom Grummett
Artist:  Tom Grummett (All)
Media Type: Pen and Ink
Art Type: Commission
For Sale Status: NFS
Views: 1019
Likes on CAF: 4
Favorited on CAF: 1
Comments: 6
Added to Site: 4/19/2020

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Description
A commission of Etrigan fighting Deathstroke by the great Tom Grummett.

Having been a longtime fan of Tom’s work since the beginning of his career (on Titans, Superman and Superboy, which I have continued to support ever since including his last two Kickstarter campaigns for Section Zero and by purchasing any book he has touched), I jumped at the chance when his commission list opened in 2018.

I had several characters and possibilities in mind but went for those two who I feel Tom draws particularly well. When I think Deathstroke, I think either Perez or Grummett. Etrigan has more references popping out but I love Tom’s rendition. I went with the fully inked and full background option, requesting a medieval setting such as the inside of a castle.

The piece was commissioned and paid for in February 2018 and delivered to me a bit more than 2 years later.

That is important because to me, it was a long time wait. And I won’t lie, it colors the experience slightly negatively. I know many of you have waited more than this or are still waiting for your commissions after years. I also know many of you have been even ripped off by artists not delivering (as have I even though I never feared it was going to be the case here). I just want to be transparent about my experience without wanting to instigate any controversy about it.

To be perfectly clear, Tom’s agent was always responsive through the process. He even helped me choose my subject when I geekfully submitted my commission options to him for advice. During the wait, I inquired from time to time about the expected delivery and was replied to every time. Even when, as time passed, I wrote with a more and more annoyed tone. Lastly, I was even proposed a full refund in October 2019 if the waiting was not to my liking. I choose not to out of respect for the agent and artist (who produced some sketches for me to review-see below for more on that point) and considering how long it had already been. I MAY have gone for it earlier if offered (I didn’t know it was an option nor did I even think to ask) and in case of need to finance another purchase.

At some point (Mars 2019), I was sent two layout sketches for the proposed finished piece. A process I welcome as it gives the customer the impression he is involved and allows him to somehow play art director.

The layout presented the piece vertically and had Deathstroke leap well above Etrigan’s blast. The other had Etrigan jumping down on Deathstroke. I replied that I’d rather have both on the ground (which would imply that the piece would be turned horizontally). I requested that both were attacking each other. So I clearly felt like I played the hands in art director in that sense.

I was then sent a sketch revised horizontally (November 2019) which was too similar to the first one in my opinion so I restated how I saw the piece and even provided examples of Tom’s own Titans artwork as to how I would see Deathstroke positioned (dodging the blast while firing his own or ready to be).

I was told that my comments would be relied to Tom but that these may reduce his creativity. On which I agree. Given the long wait, I just felt this was an opportunity for me to reduce the risk of not liking the final product.

When I received the scan of the final piece, I could see that Deathstroke was not leaping in the air anymore but still leaping and that my other comments were ignored. I guess it’s the artist’s prerogative and I’m fine with it. However, I believe a have a strong visual sense and that my request could have easily worked (for the better).

I see all of you art reps out there rolling your eyes. Does this experience portray me as a demanding customer? Most likely and I am. Certainly in our hobby where waiting as long as I did seems like the norm for many. Does my involvement in the process slowed it down? I’m sure it would be argued (and it makes sense).

Do I like the piece? Which is the most important question in the risk taking game of commissioning. I really do. But I feel like I own a very nice commission whereas I would have most likely found it spectacular if my requests were followed. So the usual, well worth the wait is not really applicable for me as the long duration of the experience is another factor which diminish my appreciation of it. This will most likely subside with time passing.

Now if you made it this far, again understand my rationale is just to share my experience being as factual as I could, not to chastise anyone.

I leave the final product in front of your eyes to appreciate hopefully free of my own frustration.

Please see the other images below to the initial sketches which I do not own. You can even choose which option you prefer ^^

The piece is not for sale nor will it be ;)

Thanks to Tom and his rep.

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Member Since: May 2005
Last Login: April 2026
Country: BELGIUM
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Nick-le-Fou !! Member Since 2016
1    
Posted On 4/19/2020

I completely understand your point here. Interactions with our favorite artists can't always be a winner, as you know, which can most definitely have an impact on the final piece. That's the game with commissions. I understand what you'd have preferred as far as the two characters poses (especially Deathstroke's) are concerned since your description is quite clear, and I have to admit that you're right. Your visual would have made for a more dynamic and organic result. Not to mention that you waited a long time - I know that some fans wait longer than that in some instances - which comes into play as you were in your own right to expect an awesome result in the end. I'm not saying it isn't, but I understand your being a tad disappointed of not getting the image you first envisioned coming from an artist you know is capable of delivering it and much more. Hope my comment won't make you feel worse about all this experience. ;-)

F M Member Since 2005
Posted On 4/19/2020

Nick-le-Fou !! wrote:
"  I completely understand your point here. Interactions with our favorite artists can't always be a winner, as you know, which can most definitely have an impact on the final piece. That's the game with commissions. I understand what you'd have preferred as far as the two characters poses (especially Deathstroke's) are concerned since your description is quite clear, and I have to admit that you're right. Your visual would have made for a more dynamic and organic result. Not to mention that you waited a long time - I know that some fans wait longer than that in some instances - which comes into play as you were in your own right to expect an awesome result in the end. I'm not saying it isn't, but I understand your being a tad disappointed of not getting the image you first envisioned coming from an artist you know is capable of delivering it and much more. Hope my comment won't make you feel worse about all this experience. ;-)
 "

Thanks for the constructive comment, Nick. To rebound on that I will add that at some point, I will confess the experience made me hesitate not to co-finance Tom’s second kickstarter. I still did and Mr Kesel just informed his backers that it will be quite late due in part to the fact that Tom has been suffering from an artist’s block. This probably played into my commission experience as well. I also struggled to go and meet Tom in person when he was invited to a convention in France 30 minutes from my home. I sadly choose not to as I felt I could not distanciate myself from my frustration and I didn’t want to make him feel bad in front of other fans. I could have gone still, not say anything and give him more money for another piece but, you know…

Ruben DaCollector Member Since 2008
1    
Posted On 4/19/2020

As you say, both are characters that Tom draws really well, and I LOVE Deathstroke, so I think it's a great piece!

K Gearon Member Since 2011
1    
Posted On 4/21/2020

First, it came out really nice.  Some really clean lines throughout and I ike the spot blacks are reserved more for Deathstroke and his part of the background - I think it adds to the "this side vs. that side" dynamic.  I actually think Sketch 1 could have been pretty cool, too - generally I'm a fan of that downward or upward perspective shot with certain multi character images as it can add to the dramatic effect.  But again, I think the final result worked!  As for your experience...2 years is a long time.  I defintely would have felt that way, been frustrated (not sure if any kind of timeframe war provided prior?), BUT glad that I wasn't being ghosted.  Which happens to a lot of folks with commission requests these days.  At minimum, if a commission is taking longer than planned, communication has to be happening.  Lastly, I get that as time went on you felt better about giving your creative 2 cents, but I do try (try being the operative word there) to let the artist GO after my must haves are noted!  Overall, rough experience there and probably why I partially don't do commissions as often these days :)  Glad you got your piece!

Nick-le-Fou !! Member Since 2016
1    
Posted On 4/23/2020

K Gearon wrote:
"  First, it came out really nice.  Some really clean lines throughout and I ike the spot blacks are reserved more for Deathstroke and his part of the background - I think it adds to the "this side vs. that side" dynamic.  I actually think Sketch 1 could have been pretty cool, too - generally I'm a fan of that downward or upward perspective shot with certain multi character images as it can add to the dramatic effect.  But again, I think the final result worked!  As for your experience...2 years is a long time.  I defintely would have felt that way, been frustrated (not sure if any kind of timeframe war provided prior?), BUT glad that I wasn't being ghosted.  Which happens to a lot of folks with commission requests these days.  At minimum, if a commission is taking longer than planned, communication has to be happening.  Lastly, I get that as time went on you felt better about giving your creative 2 cents, but I do try (try being the operative word there) to let the artist GO after my must haves are noted!  Overall, rough experience there and probably why I partially don't do commissions as often these days :)  Glad you got your piece!
 "

A man after my own taste. :-) I share your view about sketch 1.

Derek Crabbe Member Since 2020
Posted On 5/16/2020

I've experienced being able to provide lots of direction in certain cases versus other scenarios, where 'art director' was not the role the artist and rep wanted the commissioner to have. In some cases, you know that going in up front, and can make your decision accordingly. I do enjoy seeing my ideas or concepts executed by a favorite artist, so I can understand how if your vision wasn't fully realized that it can be disappointing. However, there can also be 'happy accidents' where things come out better than you imagine, or at least just as great (even if it wasn't exactly as you envisioned).

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